Well I posted similar topic in the other gb fansite forum.Guess I'll just copy and paste it here =P
I tested it only for around 5-6 times,so there are probably some inaccuracy.No flaming pls >_>' I would be more than happy if someone can point out mistakes.
QuoteWell,I was wondering the exact def % each mobile has,so I tested out with my guild member using a raon(yes its laser type,but we converted all the shots to 100% so its fair)
All the recordings were taken from the highest dmg I did,converted to 100%
Here are the results
Highest dmg did was on kalsiddon which was 393,without any weather effect.So the maximun potential dmg of raon weapon 2 should be 400 (avatar off)
Armor - 16.75% def
Nak -- 14.5% def
Bigfoot -- 13.75% def
Raon Launcher -- 13.5% def
Aduka -- 12.5% def
Kalsiddon -- 1.75% def
Mage -- 11.25% def
Lightning -- 11% def
J.D -- 9.5% def
Asate -- 8% def
Turtle -- 19.5% def
Trico -- 13.25% def
Boomer -- 9.75% def
J.Frog -- 8.25% def
Grub -- 7% def
Ice -- 5% def
Ice has the 2nd lowest def in the game,and I actually thought boomer and asate comes after kalsiddon before I tried this out >_>'
These are just approximation of their def,rounding up their defense would make the readings more accurate =)
Note: Some readings may be wrong
Nice work, Now we can tell exactly which mobile has more defense :). Wow, trico has almost the same defense as Raon? well, theres something I didn't know!
Boomer and cake are lower...sate and aduka are higher, and I knew kal was low, but that low? o_O
footie and trico are lower...and raon is higher.
I almost posted a bunch of crap saying "omg this is so inaccurate all the organics are on the bottom!!!!@!@!11" but then I noticed you didn't do the defense listing in order. It would make sense to maybe reorganize it from highest to lowest.
Turtle -- 19.5% def
Armor - 16.75% def
Nak -- 14.5% def
Bigfoot -- 13.75% def
Raon Launcher -- 13.5% def
Trico -- 13.25% def
Aduka -- 12.5% def
Mage -- 11.25% def
Lightning -- 11% def
Boomer -- 9.75% def
J.D -- 9.5% def
J.Frog -- 8.25% def
Asate -- 8% def
Grub -- 7% def
Ice -- 5% def
Kalsiddon -- 1.75% def
I still suspect it's inaccurate, probably because you tested with a laser type. The designers probably didn't change the defensive 'rankings' much from thor's hammer, so sate should be well above JD and boomer, and aduka should be comparable to nak. I always felt pretty sure that armor and raon had the exact same defense too. Bigfoot in the past has had grub-like defense.
You should only test with an explosive shot, since those do the same damage to all bots regardless of their type.
The logical pick would be to use armor.
We'll probably never know the exact defense because there's no setup (that I know of) for a perfect core hit. Even raon's babies have a few pixels of leeway in where they can hit. The best we can hope for is an accurate best-to-worst list, and to do that you should re-test with armor as the shooter. Maybe to make it even more accurate, test only with shot 1 because it explodes only once while shot 2 hits twice and they bunge a bit in between hits, so you have to worry about the core moving a bit etc etc blah blah.
Talking about core hit and these things brought to my mind an idea, If you have max bunge your shots tend to do more damage bcause you hit nearer to the sweet spot, why not test with trico shot 1, this shot have an enourmous radius, with bunge, possibly it will be the simpler one to make similar shots on every mobile. Another thing to remember would be to use around the same power level (SG or lob shots with similar power when testing) because of the colision detection.
Bunge would make it simpler to have a similar average damage.
TURTIL PWnz ALL OF YOUS!!111 ;):
I think it would be more accurate if you tested against each mobile with a 'neutral' attack type, one the mobile wouldn't get a +/- % damage bonus against it.
right, hence an explosive type like the other 2 dudes said. >_<
I'm not sure about playing with bunge, I think the most accurate results will come from no stats at all. We dunno exactly how bunge affects damage, aside from this general theory of bigger explosion = closer to core hit. So avatar off, armor or trico shot 1. Now the only question is how to set it up so that each shot hits the same way every time, so that the shot hits close to the same distance from each enemy's core. I'm thinking setting up a simple shotgun with opposite slopes like:
\___/
Then line up the enemy so his core is level with armor's red pointer and fire at angle 0, full power.
Idea: to get a perfect core shot every time...
just wait for 0 wind, get 90 degrees and stand together. shoot full power. easy right? >_>
nice numbers, it's good to know what bots have good defence
mezz that probably makes sense too, except what if your taller hit box 'blocks' some of the damage or something? I remember a post about some hitboxes being tall and some wide, I was thinking hitting the enemy while they're at a 45 degree angle to the incoming shot might be best. Or wait, that'd be worst. I give up.
Yeah, I like the 90 degree shot thing also. But the shot won't be at max speed and the reflected damage won't quite be perfect. A shotgun does more damage than a high angle in a lot of cases.
hmm I wanted to use explosion type to test it out.But then I thought explosion type mobiles usually have a huge damage range @_@'' I thought raon was more constant =P btw,I converted those 105% and 95%(either in disadvantage or advantage) to 100%.
Btw,I dun think using trico shot 1 to test can be very accurate either,simply because it would probably do around 130-140 on any mobiles :x
Use Aduka's SS or Lightning's SS :D:
These 2 SS "should" do constant damage cause they're auto-aimed. The only precations should be to have the target always at flat terrain, and right under Thor for aduka SS. I'm not sure if Lightning's SS does constant damage though.
I still wonder how come JD's SS does almost always 264, despite mobile defense.
OR you could try using Trico SS :lol: :lol: Just J/K.
well what do the offical bot "defense" bars base their measures on ?
during bot select it appears to me that defense is provided as a visual aid, you could caculate % of defense relative to other bots, that way you would only have to test 1 bot instead of all of them.
Just measure the bar and take a % of the full bar.
I never really ever have a look at the mobile select for the stats,cause to me they are quite inaccurate.Ps,Raon dun have weakest attack in overall.
Quotewell what do the offical bot "defense" bars base their measures on ?
Apparently on wrong data, because Raon's attack is one of the lowest of the game, according to that bar.
Quote
I still wonder how come JD's SS does almost always 264, despite mobile defense.
No idea, I think this came when they changed the ss so that it couldnt knock any mobiles off edges (to reduce the amount of 1 turn 1v1s). It's also weird that they automatically upgrade the dmg when theres thor, even though no thor "beam" actually shows. =S
you said you put in strength/weaknesses but what about natural enemies? (check gb mobile info, they dont' give percentages)
Damn grub one of the lowest.
:(
im like a grub pro
its funny
QuoteUse Aduka's SS or Lightning's SS :D:
These 2 SS "should" do constant damage cause they're auto-aimed. The only precations should be to have the target always at flat terrain, and right under Thor for aduka SS. I'm not sure if Lightning's SS does constant damage though.
I still wonder how come JD's SS does almost always 264, despite mobile defense.
OR you could try using Trico SS :lol: :lol: Just J/K.
that is the best idea... get them on the middle of a bump on metamine, and shoot them with SS on a windchange (no weather).
then use the other bot, and compare damages? because one is laser and one is lightning I don't think any bot has a weakness or strenght against both of those...
I wish an explosion type had one of the "hit or miss" SSes.
Quotebecause one is laser and one is lightning I don't think any bot has a weakness or strenght against both of those...
That'd be impossible. Only weapons can be multiple types (since there's more than one shot, but only one mobile), and even then, only Aduka has multiple weapon types.
oh, and...you forgot "Jewells - 0%"
QuoteWe'll probably never know the exact defense because there's no setup (that I know of) for a perfect core hit. Even raon's babies have a few pixels of leeway in where they can hit. The best we can hope for is an accurate best-to-worst list, and to do that you should re-test with armor as the shooter. Maybe to make it even more accurate, test only with shot 1 because it explodes only once while shot 2 hits twice and they bunge a bit in between hits, so you have to worry about the core moving a bit etc etc blah blah.
If it hasn't changed since way back when, which is entirely possible, a 'normal' hit is exactly 80% of a perfect, sweet spot hit. Honestly, I'd just beat someone over the head with a single-fire shot until I had a decent spread of numbers, and look for the median numbers that pop up most frequently. That would net you the damage value of a normal hit.
These numbers all look a lot low to me, as I remember turtle being way, way higher defwise when I was off testing the numbers. Around 30-40%. Maybe that's one of the other things that's changed in GBWC, too.
If you want -really- accurate, then unless it has changed: 1 point of defense stat is 0.7% defense, directly cumulative with mobile defense. 50 defense is +35% defense. Do the median damage test for no defense, and then again for maxed defense. Just subtract the difference between the two numbers, divide by .35, and you get the total base damage of the original shot on a normal hit. It's cake to calculate the remaining values from there.
This is all very, very tedious and boring and I only did it for a few mobiles. That being said, looking at the numbers posted, I don't believe for an instant that Ice is lower than Bigfoot, or that Bigfoot has equivalent defense to a Raon.
This is what I think of for Dragon and Knight:
Dragon - 10%
Knight - 11.5%
I don' like this kinda test, it's too much inacurate. I'm just gonna belive in exact facts. Shot only in identical conditions.
Go to Metal Mine A, all testings must be in the same position (use the initial position or watch the inclination to know the exact point), the shot must always be the same (same angle, same power - simplify using full power). Since the winds degree cannot be precisely measured wait for 0, and no weather of course. I sugest using boomer or a explosive atack mobile in full power angle.
My testings shown that there's no random adition on damage so that the same shot in the same wind with the same angle and power will always do the same damage. The only imprecision I see is the damage rounding e.g. 365,7382785459 is the calculated damage then the game use 366. This doesn seem too much but remember that 1 point in 200 is .5%
If someone has the pacience and precision for some testin, please do it and show the results.
Sense of nostalgia... i haven't been reading these forums for about two months now... SOOOOOO... I'll come in with another physics fact to own someone *cough cough*, because that's the kind of guy i am.
Creedo says: Yeah, I like the 90 degree shot thing also. But the shot won't be at max speed and the reflected damage won't quite be perfect.
Using potential energy/kinetic energy, it's really easy to prove that if you launch something up at X mph, when it comes back down to that height, it will be traveling at the exact same speed downwards. (this is assuming no air resistance, which i'm sure GB has.
So, let's say 4 bars of power = 100 mph.
If you launched it at 90°, it would hit at 100 mph.
If you launched it at 0°, it would hit at roughly 100.001 mph, due to the slight gravity acceleration in the split second it takes to reach.
*haha pwned*
I'll be back for more ownage... *randomly disappears again*
Quotebecause that's the kind of guy i am.
well... if you mean ugly...?
guapo: yeah, the physics you mention sound correct, but you can just tell visually that a full power high angle shot with boomer doesn't arrive at the same speed as a shotgun :/
Based on "Softnyx's Graphical Calculations of Defense"
(Percentenge is based on filling up the 179px DEF bar)
90.50% ----- 162/179 ----- Turtle
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- Armor
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- J.Frog
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- Nak
60.34% ----- 108/179 ----- Kalsiddon
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Aduka
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Grub
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Mage
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Trico
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- A.Sate
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- Boomer
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- Ice
omg armor mobile no 1 defense ya...hoohohoho
QuoteBased on "Softnyx's Graphical Calculations of Defense"
(Percentenge is based on filling up the 179px DEF bar)
90.50% ----- 162/179 ----- Turtle
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- Armor
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- J.Frog
70.39% ----- 126/179 ----- Nak
60.34% ----- 108/179 ----- Kalsiddon
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Aduka
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Grub
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Mage
40.22% ----- 072/179 ----- Trico
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- A.Sate
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- Boomer
30.17% ----- 054/179 ----- Ice
These actually sound about right to me. My tests awhile ago put Trico at 20% I believe, possibly 15%, my memory is real hazy on this point. So just halve those percentages and you get decent figures out of that. Turtle being 45% doesn't sound exactly right to me, though, and the lower figure would put it at about 32%. Wouldn't be too hard to test (method posted above), but I don't really care.
this was a pretty good way of checking it, although do we know for sure if softnyx took the time to be 'exact' in the way they represented defense with a little visual bar graph? Or did they just fill in some amount that looked right?
Also, 90% of the bar doesn't mean 90% defense, like you cut the enemy's base damage in half or whatever, right?
I think mauve is right, cut all those numbers in half and that's close to the 'real' defense of the mobile - i.e. turtle reduces the shot's damage by 45%, boomer by 15%, etc.