The fundamental Gunbound flaws thread

[andrewcleung]

Dont forget their announcement typos!

[SmellyBeans]

Dont forget their announcement typos!

That's about all I can think of right now. Add more if you want, but keep in mind, no "a sate is too powerful" "boomer is whores" "People shouldn't be allowed to kick" etc... Only point out things that are so obvious that you can't believe they haven't done something about them yet.  :>

[Nic01]

Since just recently, gunbound hangs up every few seconds for hangups lasting a few seconds.  Usually it ends up in a complete computer fuckup lasting for the next few reboots.
There is no reason for a game to become inherently unusable for lower-end computers for absofuckinglutely no advance in gameplay or flashiness.

Strike *thinks* twenty, Softnyx.

*reinstalls gunbound*

[ProfessorPap]

[buttkissing mode]btw, huge thanks to kiwi, mauvecow and creedo for making a hugely interesting thread.[/buttkissingmode]

[-SF-]

dont forget gb's random crashes -_-

[Cyberquad]

They need to fix the lag system. Whenever someone lags, the game goes:

"HOST and THISGUYLAGS will be kicked in 30 seconds"

Then the game sits there in lag for about ten minutes, not kicking the guy.

[creedo]

Mauve: that one situation, right shooting melee, is sucky for trico, ok... but you can look at it as "this sucks because trico's shots are different" or you can look at it as "this sucks because I spawned in melee range with no angle". In the latter case, a lot of matchups are bullshit - raon in a shotgunning mines position vs grub, grub lost due to the spawn. A sate goes first vs boomer from can't-miss range, boomer lost due to the spawn.  Nak vs. cake up close, nak is probably going to win even if cake valiantly works to hole you. Why should trico get special consideration for being fucked at melee range half the time vs strong mobiles when others are fucked 100% of the time at the same range vs the same mobiles?

re: boomer's backshot - first, it doesn't happen for no reason at all, it happens because the designers want a difficult to handle, strangely moving projectile for that particular bot, and they came up a set of faked physics to do that, and after tweaking those physics for a bit they said "ok this is what we're looking for, good enough." They aren't going to test every single angle and power just to fish for a specific plausible backshot angle.  These are boomerangs for christ's sake, in cartoons and movies and the legend of zelda you throw them at *0* degrees and they magically fly straight back to you. This is undoubtedly something softnyx had in mind when they made a character called "boomer" who fires BOOMERANGS.

Anyway, what I was trying to say is: The fact that the minimum gunbound  backshot angle is 37 vs 47 vs 67 is meaningless... it's like complaining that nak's heavy shot weight sucks because you have to use over 1 bar in melee to avoid hitting yourself in melee situations with 26 wind against. Using more power for nak doesn't suck, it's just a requirement for playing nak in some occasional wind situations. Using angle 36 or less for boomer doesn't suck, it's just a requirement for playing boomer in some occasional wind situations.

it is a major problem and it is widespread and it is hurting this game and diluting the rank system significantly, and the game is in dire need of incentives to reduce reliance on it to rank up. (My favorite so far was seeing a blue wand with a 90% win rate who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when not on Meta Mine.)

Are you that naive dude? Teamstacking has NOTHING TO DO with the situations you're describing. This is due to BOTTING. 90% win rate blue wand who misses = BOTTER. Diluted, unfair ranks = result of BOTTING. It doesn't happen because legitimately skilled high rank players bully chickens in slowass 4v4 games for about 25 GP an hour, it happens because unskilled players bully suicidal bots in quick 1v1 games for about 150 GP an hour. Do you see the game losing popularity because chickens can't find other chickens to play? I don't see that. In fact, if these blue wands are just beating up chickens and can't hit the broad side of a barn, then the matchups between wands and lower ranks are MUCH more fair than you portray them to be.

I do believe most of this is simply a matter of miscommunication and misunderstanding, rather than an actual disagreement of viewpoints.

I don't think we'll ever resolve teamstacking. I just don't see anything wrong, under any conditions, with a team full of high ranked, skilled players playing vs low rankers. Nobody, absolutely nobody, is putting a gun to the head of low rankers, and if they don't know what they're getting into, they should notice the "play vs wand = get a beating" pattern after maybe 5 games tops and resolve to play lower ranks if they can't tolerate losing games in the course of the typical gunbound learning process.

About the spawns, it sucks when 3 teammates LITERALLY spawn on each other, but that happens about ... I'd say 1/10 times on 2/12 maps, and it happens half the time to you and half the time to the enemy. That's what, 8 out of 1000 games? With the understanding that you will also have the chance to inflict triple damage on the enemy 8/1000 games?

Honestly, the chance to hit 2 or 3 people right from the spawn DOES add the fun of the game ...I would rather suffer through it occasionally than have it removed from the game completely and never have the chance to try for DKs (save for the kind that an enemy stupidly manufactures for me).

I don't understand why you must look at everything from the martyred victim viewpoint man... some of the most fun games I've ever played are unbalanced or unfair in some respect, in fact many of them are fun BECAUSE they're unbalanced. As an example, you could look at the growth of quake... first game had cheap bullshit and unfair spawns. Later versions removed some of the movement, toned down some of the damage from 'unfair' weapons, etc etc. What do the fans do? Complain that it's unfun and make a patch to bring the game back to its former cheapass-gameplay glory. The patch I'm referring to is more popular than the original game. A less accurate example might be the fighting game genre... the most fair and balanced fighting game I know of, with perfectly even, flat, identical fighting arenas is virtua fighter 4. Yet the game's performance in arcade falls somewhere between a broken frogger machine and mario golf. Meanwhile tremendously unfair games from capcom and namco are enormously popular.
The reason I call this example inaccurate is because in japan, the VF series rules the roost... so I guess some people just have a mindset that more balance = more fun, and others just don't have that mentality. That's my halfassed explanation as to why we won't ever agree on this.

[genty]

i dont think team stacking happens on purpose at all times.  im a ruby wand now and all my friends are around wands.  and when we play together it seems like we're stacking.  but we are all friends.  We dont purposely pick on others, sometimes we fight high rankers but now these days, the metal axe are the ones owning everyone.  

[ProfessorPap]

some comments earlier in the thread made me think of one more 'bug' issue that impacts a great many things... first and foremost starting financially for softnyx, but having a lot of secondary consequences.  this is not a bug per se, but here goes:

as far as i can tell softynx has chosen a rather bizarre target audience with the game of gunbound.  altho the game they've created is deeply rich and nuanced with tactics, strategy, and a deep ruleset making it distinctive and unique from worms or anything else, the GRAPHICS SCHEME they have chosen is kiddie-light in the extreme.  the first thing i thought when i started playing this game is "why am i being represented by a little mop-haired tyke with a perpetually angry expression?  i'm a grown man, dammit."  this made me feel a little embarrassed and i've since tried to build avatar sets that restore a little self-dignity, yet the kiddie-style, anime graphics are inescapable.  naturally the game itself is wonderful so this doesn't bother me all that much... but it gives food for thought in terms of what type of players would be attracted by the graphics.  there is NO QUESTION that everything is richly and wonderfully animated, for example the bot facial expressions and the weapons effects, and that adds a great deal of charm to the experience.  the work the artists have put into this game is damn hard to overlook.  so my problem is not with their professionalism but with their direction chosen.

and it seems to me that their target has been successfully achieved- the game is indeed played primarily by twelve-year olds, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.  OTOH, the richness of the game (it's not far from being chess-like) cries out for a somewhat more mature audience.  the money they are hoping to reap probably best comes from adults as much as it does kids.  for one thing, kids just have to beg their parents permission to use their credit cards- many adults will have those cards on their own.  and just as you can design avatar sets that will look appealling to the eye of a twelve-year old, i imagine you could design one that a 19-year old will want to buy.  (more could be said on the graphics subject but i think my point's made)

anyway, the consequences of having a young target audience might well lead to two big problems: LESS MONEY earned by softnyx and greater problems with consciousless SCRIPT-KIDDIES (altho there might be just as many older people with just as little scruples).  having less money means less quality put into the coding, the security, and the bug fixes, such as the perpetual lag and freezing.

so what would i consider?  totally making over the graphics.  instead of depicting kids, depict men and women.  instead of everyone having an angry expression on their face, have some range of mood.  instead of shooting for cutesy avatars, go for a more artsy approach.  by doing things like this you could target a more mature game-playing audience, yet plenty of kids would want to play it.  it would be just more of an 'all-ages game' in terms of reputation and look and character.  this would have a lot of consequences i think for many of the issues with GB, as well as specifically a lot of the bugs already mentioned here (for example they would hopefully have more and better-quality staff to look into these bugs)

okay, that was the thought.  it's just a thought, so don't rape too hard please. =)

[Capnkj2]

Hmmm I read your post ProfessorPap and I started thinking--wow someone is complaining about the graphics!? How ungrateful! But when I really think about it-- you're actually probably very right. I think a different direction with the artistic scheme would alter the game maturity level/population. Interesting...

Anyway, on a different note, my biggest problems with the game have already been mentioned but I can add a few:

1. Un-use of certain things.

For example, there is supposed to be a weather effect for causing more ground damage-- it's always a zero though...why don't they just make it already? Another example: Rankings say 40000/40000 instead of what you are out of the amount of players that exist. Another One: They are supposed to have seasonal rankings...but they don't ever change seasons...I think.

2. Game Improvent Focus.

The only way they seem to be changing the game is through patches and new avatars and the occasional contest. They never add new mobiles--Imagine the possibilities, they never add new items--this I cannot believe...it's so simple to do and it's easy to come up with new ideas. They never fix certain spelling errors, like "Leon Launcher".

That's all I can think of for now. These are just ways I think the game could be even better--not complaints.

[nars2]

a trade system, as said already, is the most obvious thing ppl expect from gb. It's been awaited since I started playing (beginningof 2004), and I believe it's beeen awaited before that.

It's sooooo simple, check ragnarok trade. Both players drag the item to the trade window, so each one can see what they are getting. After checking if the trade is what you want really, you click "ok". If the guy also clicks "ok", he can't unclick it anymore, so all that's left is both to click "trade". Then, when both click it, the trade is done. Simple as that. If the guy tries to cheat you and removes the item before clicking ok, you can still notice it and click cancel, instead of trade. Never seen nobody abuse it, it's great.

Now about ice and raon bugs...........sometimes I start thinking if that way the are acting is not the way softnyx wants........you see, such and easy problem to solve, and still it remains for monthsssssssss.....really dissapointing :/

[CommunistBus]

As much as everyone wants the trase system, I sitll have to say, if they added it its going to be a hackers paradise. Softnyx is going to fuck it up royally.