Turtle Guide

[creedo]

maggit: thanks

ramza: Basically you only SG if you're a Turtle noob, and you are also a Turtle noob if you constantly need to move. You generally can stay in the same area and kick everyone's ass.

Woh, I hope this is sarcasm because it's seriously wrong... please tell me it's sarcasm.
A smart player shotguns whenever possible (assuming you're in a position where you can get both streams of the shot 2 to hit, so maybe not further than 1/4 screen).  There's absolutely nothing noob about shotgunning, it's 100% damage with a near 0% chance of miss.  It's noob to stunt with a non-shotgun shot in situations where shotgun is available.  It's something I like to stress in my guide - *If you can shotgun, do it, and don't listen to any noobs who imply it's cheap or skilless. Always shotgun whenever possible.

Beyond that, turtle is constantly forced to move to get his angle back after being shot, we both know the importance of having angle.  You wouldn't need to move only if someone just ignored you and didn't shoot you the entire match.  I agree though that there's no need to teleport just to get a shotgun position on the enemy - if you have no angle, you have alternatives (for example, instead of wasting a turn teleporting the turtle player can waste a turn shooting the ground nearby to create an angle).  Teleport is definitely handy though, I went from always packing one to rarely packing one to almost always packing one again.  Teleport could mean the difference between you definitely die the next turn to you force the enemy to shoot far, miss, and you have a hope of surviving and making a comeback.  I see a lot of very pro players use teleport and team teleport to turn around sure-lose situations.  

PS: It seems like I'm picking on you today Ramza
But it's nothing personal.  We both have the same goal - to spread the turtle gospel and encourage people to try it.

[Ramza]

maggit: thanks

ramza: Basically you only SG if you're a Turtle noob, and you are also a Turtle noob if you constantly need to move. You generally can stay in the same area and kick everyone's ass.

Woh, I hope this is sarcasm because it's seriously wrong... please tell me it's sarcasm.
A smart player shotguns whenever possible (assuming you're in a position where you can get both streams of the shot 2 to hit, so maybe not further than 1/4 screen).  There's absolutely nothing noob about shotgunning, it's 100% damage with a near 0% chance of miss.  It's noob to stunt with a non-shotgun shot in situations where shotgun is available.  It's something I like to stress in my guide - *If you can shotgun, do it, and don't listen to any noobs who imply it's cheap or skilless. Always shotgun whenever possible.

Yes creedo, that was my belief before, but here are the reasons I DON'T shotgun whenever possible:

1) If you use Dual+, you're obviously going to be sensible (assuming you're good with delay) and use shot 1 first to save yourself 200+ delay points... the problem is, if you shotgun a Dual+, then the shot 1 will cause enough land damage to LOWER the target, thus making your shot 2 miss. Even if you aim lower than them, it will still cause much land damage and lower them making one or even both streams of shot 2 to miss. About the only time this works is when you're right next to them and shotgunning them, and I consider that "situational."

2) Shotgun does come in handy, but I consider it a situational shot in which I have no other choice. My first melee choice would be a slugshot, or what you call a 'forkshot'. This is extremely easy to do, and is as fast, if not faster, than performing a shotgun. You can also use this shot if you DON'T have a shotgun angle, making it very versatile. This is NOT a situational shot, since you can basically use it in almost every situation you encounter, thus making it a very practical/tactical shot.

3) Some GB asshats call you a noob for shotgunning a Turtle. Turtle has this little veil of crap called "noob" on it. Many of the GunBound population consider Turtle a noob piece of shit, and they also think that all they can do is shotgun and possibly high angle if they are "good enough", and that's about all they can do. What they don't know is that they are ignoranamus' and they are too lazy or too greedy to master this unique mobile. If you shotgun with a Turtle, chance are, you're going to be called a "super noob", a noob, or cheapass, or something of that nature.

Again, I used to believe that you should shotgun whenever possible, but from many months of hard experience, I have learned otherwise.

[starrett]

Heed Ramza's advice, he had turned me into a pretty good turtle user at one point. Remember those sexy UHA SS'es against the wind?
heh.

[Ramza]

Lol, not everyone will agree with me starrett. Especially creedo. We're twins in the Turtle game, which neither one is considered a better player than the other. The major difference between us is that creedo is strictly a formula player and I am strictly a feel player. I'm thinking of taking a few lessons from creedo to learn the art of the formulas, because I have had an increasing need for these on-the-spot formulas, where I could hit instead of miss.

Plus I think I've been using Turtle for longer, but creedo is still able to match up for the most part.

[starrett]

I wasn't taking a side lol. I was making a very general statement about my experience with you in game. Guess I should read the whole thread eh?

[dm123]

I tend to sg with a turtle only when its right there. Like they shot me and my angle is pointed to them from the hole. Slugshot is a LOT more impressive :lol:. and very little chance for miss once you get it down. I never move to get a SG.. only time I move is when I need a higher angle. 50 doesn't do too well most of the time.

[Bravodor]

Ramza...

you should consider becoming a helix bot player, raon, mage, and turtle.

my 3 favorite bots, they are all pretty similar...and I think since you used the most difficult of the helix bots for so long, the other 2 shouldent be that difficult to master.

I also love lighting, which really isnt a helix bot, but is still really nice in stat on...and stat off.

[creedo]

about reason #1: dual+ sometimes fails when shotgunned, but plain old dual tends to do pretty well.  It depends on the angle.  A perfectly horizontal angle from somewhat long shotgun range will often fail due to the drop effect.   Upward or downward ones almost never fail,  the shot can't fly over an enemy when you'e shooting upward and if you're shooting downward, they aren't disturbed much... and as you noted close ones rarely fail.
I agree that for dual+ specifically, a slug shot is foolproof.

#2. Slug shot is situational, but so is a shotgun, so I don't see any harm in calling them both situational.  Shotgun can't be used if you don't have a low enough angle, or if you're in a pit and there's a bit of dirt between you and the enemy.  Slugshot can't be used from as far away as shotgun can, and I can't find a way to make it work when I'm on a semi steep downward slope (sometimes my highest angle will usually drive the lower stream into the dirt, and anyway if I can get a low enough angle to shotgun I usually just to it).  Shotgun is going to be faster if you're using drag, as you don't spend any time adjusting power level.  It also is impossible to fuck up the power level, which is nice.

#3. You're a wuss if you let other people decide how you shoot :X
You know why people call other people 'shotgun noobs' ?   It's not because they think it's strictly for noobs, or because they have some ethical problem with easy shots.  They do it because they know it's a 100% guaranteed hit and powerful, and because when they see someone lining up a shotgun they KNOW FOR A FACT they are going to get hit and die.  That feeling is frustrating, knowing that you lost your life and maybe the game and you're not going to be shooting again for a little while.  So people invented this "you're a gay shotgun noob" tactic to fuck with their opponent, to make them miss, to make them gamble on stupid stunts and lose.  NEVER listen to an opponents suggestions or opinions, because 99% of the time they have only one interest - to make you lose.   Trust me, if the opponent isn't a lousy player, they will have no problems shotgunning you when they think they need to make the shot.  And if they don't shotgun you, that usually means they ARE a lousy player... and why should anyone with skill care what a lousy player thinks?

Ramza, I really think you'll be a better player if you shotgun whenever possible.  I agree you need slug shot, and the fact that you use it all the time gives you really sharp control over it.  But now that you have slugshot down pat,  there's no reason to avoid shotgunning when it's a sure thing and using slugshot when you have to (lack of angle, using dual+).  And definitely get over what other people think of turtle or your shooting.  I did a long time ago, and that's why I don't bite when you say I'm able to match up 'for the most part'

[Ramza]

<_< I'll try it out.

Lol.

Ok, no one else seems to be asking questions or anything. So. :unsure:  

[el6uapo]

hmm... i usually SG when i can... I'll even dual when i SG, because such a sure hit doesn't come up very often, i.e. the guy moves away when he realizes you can SG...  my way of playing is usually... SS if possible, if not, dual shot 2  using formulas, and if too far away, test with shot 1 or high angle for a bit surer shot... I usually don't bother with delay because 2 turtle duals kills just about anything, but i will play delay management with lightning pros, or sates... lightning can 1,1, SS for a VERY nasty hole, and sate can just kill you with his cheapness... I dual when i can, because i can...  

[Ramza]

It's also very good if you practice delay control against ANY mobile.. that way, you know what's best at the situation you're in. Especially with Turtle, you need to have good delay control, because I just can't tell you how many times I've been beaten in delay by like 10 or 20 delay points. That can cost you a life.

[00Sniper]

lightning can 1,1, SS for a VERY nasty hole, and sate can just kill you with his cheapness... I dual when i can, because i can...

his cheapness? omg, when are female sates gonna come out???  dualing when you can is usually a pretty good strategy if you have 3 duals and no other items, but you have to watch out for other farts that can gang bang you if you do that... Basically, watch your delay, and if its thor/force/lightning, let em have it =D

btw, is turtle male or female?

[Ramza]

Male account = male Turtle, femal account = female Turtle?

[00Sniper]

eh, I dont think so, its just that eL6uApO got it into his head that they have a gender xD theyre all supposed to be like hermaphrodites =/  how can a sate have a gender?  robots have reproduction organs?  :rolleyes:  

[Redfoot]

The problem I have with shotgunning is  that you don't learn to develop any feel for regular shots, which as an aspiring gunbound 1337 pro is very important to me.I choose to stick to lobs and high/ultra high's because it is far more productive in the long run.

I certainly don't stay away from SG because i'm affraid of 'haha newb' remarks, i play lightning for the sole purpose of KS'ing as much as possible.. screw everyone, i need gold!  :lol: