Turtle Guide

[creedo]

TURTLE GUIDE
by CreeDo
W00t
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turtle's not used a lot, so I decided to try to make myself into a pretty good
turtle just to see if it sucks or is just underused. It turns out it's just
underused. Turtle's not godly or top tier, but he's got a nice combination of
the strongest defense in the game with the ability to inflict 500+ dmg duals.
That's a pretty happy combo.
Turtle's also super fun to play as. Everyone's bored to death by now of boomer
backshots, JD high angles, etc.. .but how many times do you see a good turtle
SS? I never did until I hit blue wand, after thousands of games.
So try turtle.


Turtle's shots:
----

Shot 1: A basic shot, it inflicts maybe 150 damage on a solid hit, sometimes
more, and makes a smallish hole if it hits dirt. There's only 1 part and it's
kinda thick, so there really are no tricks to this shot, just aim and hit.

Shot 2: You fire 2 streams of water that spiral back and forth as they travel
along the shot path. It's similar to mage's shot 2, but turtle's is nice because
after traveling through the air for a few seconds, the 2 streams of water merge
to form a narrow double stream that moves in a straight line. If you try to hit
someone before the 2 streams have a chance to merge, you often will get only 1
to hit (or maybe the other is only a half hit). If you find a way to keep the
shot in the air long enough for the streams to come together, usually both will
hit if either of them is on target. A solid hit from this is about 240,
sometimes as high as 270+ but I've never seen 300 without weather assistance or
suiciding or avatars.

SS: The hardest shot to use correctly (in the entire game). Turtle fires a big
waterblob that opens up after being in the air a certain length of time (about 3
seconds). When it opens, it splits into several smaller waterblobs. Depending on
the direction and speed of the shot, they will either fall together in a cluster
or spread way out like the spreadshot in contra. Remember contra? That was a
great game. Anyway the idea behind the SS is simple. You must either A: Fire it
so that the spread is narrow and vertical and all the balls rain down on the
enemy's head... or B: Fire it so that it splits a fraction of a second before
landing on the opponent, so that the balls smack their body before they have a
chance to separate.  A correct SS is at least 300+ damage for a 'nice try' and
500 for a nice shot.  It's possible to get 700 I believe on a perfect hit.

--------------

Shooting styles -

There are five key shots with turtle, and you will have to learn which is the
best in any given situation. For the most part, to play turtle like I do you
will be using fixed power shots. If you can't do fixed power shots, you look to
shotgun, and if neither of those is available, you try for one of the other
shots. The last one I list (fixed power) is the hardest and most important shot
to learn, so if you only read 1 thing, read that.

LOBS:

Lobs are just my term for what most people call a 'normal shot'. If you can't
get a low enough or close enough angle for a shotgun, and you can't get a high
enough angle for a fixed power shot, you use a lob. The idea behind a lob is
pretty simple: Pick an angle that you're comfortable with and take a guess at
how much power to use to hit the target. If you miss, you simply adjust your
power during the next shot. A lob is generally a lowish angle shot (like 45 or
less) and you don't need to pay a lot of attention to wind. The downside to
using lobs is that they aren't really suited for getting maximum damage out of
turtle's shot 2.
Lob tips -

*Pick an angle to practice lobs at, and stick with it. After using it enough you
will develop a feel for that angle and can make good shots with it on demand.
What angle you use is up to you. I find that a low, flat angle gives you some
room for error, so I tend to use 35. I'd also recommend learning 45 or 50.
Anything higher than that, and you can probably switch to fixed power shots.

*Stick with shot 1 when lobbing, except for lobbing across a full screen or
further. If you use shot 2 for shorter range lobs, usually one of the water
streams hits the ground in front of or behind the opponent. A half hit with shot
2 is a big waste of delay, and you're better off sticking to shot 1 until you
can stop lobbing and move on to a different (better) type of shooting method.

*If you only need a single weak hit to kill someone, stick to lobs (even if
other shots are available). Lobs give more room for error and are less mentally
challenging than high angles or fixed power shots.

SHOTGUN:

Shotgunning is where turtle is at his strongest... it's easy to do and you tend
to get the best possible damage from your shot 2. If you don't already know what
I'm talking about, you might use the term 'direct' shot instead of shotgun/sg. A
shotgun attack is a close range shot where you aim your red needle directly at
the enemy's body and then fire with maximum power. It works well because when
your shot 2 leaves turtle's cannon, it starts out with both streams together,
and then after travelling about 1/4th of a screen the shot starts to spread out.
If the enemy is closer than 1/4th of a screen and you make sure to fire at
maximum power, you get both streams to hit, and depending on how carefully you
aim you might hit the enemy's sweet spot for anywhere from 240 to 275 damage.
Even a crappy shotgun is good for at least 220+ damage.
Shotgun tips -

*This is kind of basic gunbound strategy, but some players don't catch on to it
right away. If you're at the bottom of a hole and want to shotgun the enemy, and
you can't do it from your current position and you can't do it by moving
forward... then move back. Moving back to the slope of a hill behind you lets
you get your needle pointing downward enough to shotgun the guy in front of you.

*Use shot 2, unless you're using a dual+ or need to use 1 to save delay. The
whole idea behind shotgunning is that you can get full damage from shot 2
without a lot of mental effort or precise power adjustment.

*Some people may tell you that max power is overkill and stupid when shooting
directly... for most bots you only need to shoot hard enough to reach the enemy,
and shooting any harder can have ugly results. Turtle is the exception to this
rule, the harder you shoot shot 2, the more distance the water streams will
travel together before they start to split apart. Therefore you must not shotgun
with low power.

*Make sure the enemy is close enough for the shotgun, if they're about 1/3rd of
the screen away you can count on only half of the shotgun hitting while the
other half hits dirt or flies over their head.

*When doing a dual shotgun, (or any shotgun) aim low towards the enemy's feet.
You don't want to aim so low that your shot mostly hits dirt, but if you aim too
high the first shot settles the enemy into the ground a bit, and then the next
shot flies over their head. It's important to figure out the sweet spot so that
both hits of your dual connect. Alternately, you can make sure you use an angle
that won't fly over the enemy's head no matter where you aim. A nice bonus to
aiming just to hit the enemy's feet is the damage: The feet on any mobile is the
sweet spot where a solid hit will do the best possible damage.

*Shotguns aren't just restricted to low angles or enemies across from or below
you. You can shotgun an enemy above you too. If you're at the bottom of a pit
and the enemy is on the slope facing you, just shotgun them.

*You can pass a shotgun through a small bit of land without part of the shot
blowing up and getting wasted. Any bit of land that's about 4 pixels or less
will not interfere with your shot, even if it appears that there's a solid wall
of pixels between you and the enemy.

FORK SHOT:

This is a goofy name I gave to a fundamental and useful turtle shot. Ramza calls
it the impossible shotgun in his guide. The idea is simple: Get both streams of
shot 2 to connect at close range, even though you cannot shotgun and cannot use
a high angle/fixed power shot. This shot is pretty much reserved for situations
where both you and the enemy are close together on flat ground. In such a
situation any bot should be able to shot 2 or dual for maximum damage, but for
turtle it's actually kinda tricky. If you shoot the shot normally as a lob then
half of your shot misses and flies over the enemy. If you shoot soft enough to
try to get both shots to hit, you often end up screwing yourself or driving one
of the streams into the ground. When you do it right, the shot looks more
distinctly like 2 different attacks, the first stream comes out straight and
hits the enemy's mobile in the face, then a split second later the second stream
comes out of the top of your cannon and follows a weird curvy arc to land on the
enemy's back.
Fork shot tips -

*A highish angle, something around 50 or above, is good. Shoot with about 2/3
of a bar power, assuming you and the enemy are nearly kissing. You won't ever
need to shoot stronger, but shooting a bit softer for strong wind towards the
enemy is advisable.

*Please be careful not to shoot too softly or you take half the damage or all of
the damage on yourself.

*If there's a fairly large height difference between you and your enemy, you
should look for a chance to shotgun instead, or else use a fixed power shot. It
might seem silly to use a high angle fixed power shot when you're right next to
the enemy, but a solid high angle or shotgun hit is better than a halfassed fork
shot.

TURTLEKAZE/TURTLECIDE:

This is a form of suicide that allows you to inflict MUCH higher damage than
usual with your shot 2 or with a dual shot 2. It's basically a fork shot from
inside the enemy's body. There's no way to get this massive damage without
hurting yourself, so you should use it as a desperation tactic to help end the
game or finish off an enemy who really has to die. You can also use it as the
finishing shot of an already surefire win, so you get more gold and GP out of
the final shot of the match. A nicely done turtlekaze dual can inflict about 675
damage, or over 330 per shot 2.
Turtlekaze tips:

*First judge how far you have to move in order to pull the shot off. You need to
be deep inside the enemy's body, so that the blue nozzle of your water cannon
is aligned with the center of their mobile. In fact I've seen it work well when
their body and yours are almost lined up evenly, because turtle's shot comes
from the center of his body (not from the cannon).
If you can't walk far enough, don't try turtlekaze. You'll just end up doing
tons of damage to yourself and only normal damage to the enemy.

*Treat this as a fork shot and try to use a fairly high angle if you're on level
ground. Naturally you can adjust the angle if the enemy is on a downslope or
upslope relative to your body. The idea is to aim the needly roughly in the
center of their mobile and a bit above horizontal. Once you're inside their body
and have chosen an angle, just lightly tap space (if using slice) or left click
the mouse (if drag) to shoot with 0 or near-0 power. It may be better to have
a tiny bit of power than to have absolute 0.

HIGH ANGLE:

High angle shots are common for all bots, and if you're experienced at high
angling with someone else (like j.d) then you'll find turtle is very similar.
High angling is just shooting at full power, but at a very steep angle (usually
higher than 70). The angle you choose determines where the shot will land. 89
will hit someone right next to you. Angle 79, full power, hits roughly 1 screen
away. In between is angle 84 (unfull), which you can think of as half a screen.
The rest you can estimate for yourself. Wind adjustment is complex and I'll
cover it in the fixed power section coming up next. Wind adjustment for high
angles is the same as adjusting for the lower fixed power shots. The nice thing
about high angling is that no matter what angle you choose to shoot at, your
shot 2 always spends enough time in the air to merge together into a tight dual
stream.
high angle tips:

*Don't high angle if you don't have to, fixed power shots and even long range
lobs are easier than turtle's high angles. A fixed power shot has a very small
difference between 1 degree. High angle shots have a lot of difference and the
enemy can actually sit between one angle and the next, so that you're forced to
adjust both angle and power in order to land a hit. High angles are also less
predictable than fixed power shots and you're more likely to miss badly and/or
TK.

*Beyond 1 screen, choosing an angle is difficult and it's hard to predict where
shots will land without a lot of testing and experience. The shot seems to lose
power as it travels, so while 1 screen is exactly 11 angles... 2 screens is not
22 angles.  I think of the first screen as 11 angles and the second screen as
12 angles, so 1.5 screens would be 11+6 ... 17 angles.  You may find using
3 bar shots easier than high angles for distances up to 1.5 screens.  I outline
3 bar shots later in the fixed power section.

*If your max power high angle lands juuust barely in front of the opponent, you
have 2 solutions. The first is to physically move your mobile forward a bit,
then try the same shot on your next turn. The second solution is to lower your
angle by 1 degree, then fire again at about 1/5th bar less than full power. If
you lower 1 angle and fire at full power, the shot goes past the target. So you
must fire with less power (about 3.8 bars) to plant the shot where it needs to
go. A shot fired using this method is usually called an 'unfull' high angle,
i.e: "85 full lands just in front of him and 84 full lands just behind him, but
84 unfull will hit him".

*If you're getting frustrated trying to find just the right blend of angle and
power and the wind never seems to cooperate and you keep barely missing the
enemy, don't be afraid to switch to a long range lob. At 1.5 screens away, your
shot 2 has enough time to merge together even if you shoot at the enemy with a
fairly low angle like 45. You might find that easier than doing all the mental
gymnastics needed to make a clean high angle shot.

FIXED POWER:

This is the key to playing really good turtle, I think. Traditional turtle style
has been to high angle anything you can't shotgun, or else shoot by feeling
using less than full power and try to get lucky with shot 2. Using the fixed
power method, you can get better accuracy than merely shooting with feeling, and
at the same time you still get the shot 2 to spend enough time in the air to
merge together and connect for a solid damaging hit. You also don't need to
struggle so much for angle when using fixed power method... if you need to hit
an enemy half a screen away with high angles, then you must be able to attain
angle 85 in a 0 wind situation. Using fixed power, you only need enough slope to
reach angle 75.
So what is it? Fixed power means using the same power for every shot, and merely
changing your angle to aim at different areas on the screen or to adjust for
missed shots. It seems like a backwards style of shooting if you learned by
using the same angle and varying power (like 99% of gunbound players do).
Benefits of fixed power method:

*Assuming wind isn't too tricky, you can get super accurate shots without a test
shot and fire off duals with confidence. You can nail anyone within 1 screen
distance once you master this. If wind cooperates and you have angle, you can go
an entire game without a miss. You'll look and feel PRO ^_^

*Your shot spends enough time in the air to allow your shot 2 streams to merge
together. Your shot 2's will hit for maximum damage.

*You get a high angle bonus for most shots, which is a nice way to earn extra
gold with every shot.

The following is stolen from an armor guide I wrote. Turtle can use the exact
same shooting method with (nearly?) the exact same power to get accurate hits.
Turtle may need to adjust by firing with 2 or 3 pixels less power. It's hard to
say, I seem to be doing fine with the same power my armor uses.

2.4 bar fixed power method:

Always use 2.4 bars power for shots within 1 screen distance.

Landmarks:

1 screen = angle 60 - measure by putting your mobile half off the edge of the
screen and if the enemy mobile is half off the other edge, that's considered a 1
screen shot.

edge of the screen to end of your power meter = 66 - right click and drag until
you're at the left edge of the screen. If the enemy is over the end of your
power meter, that's an angle 66 shot. If you're on the right edge of the screen,
check to see if the enemy is over the line that divides the light blue from the
dark blue section at the beginning of your power meter. That's also angle 66.

half screen = 75 - you can measure this by using right click and dragging
yourself to the edge of the screen (half off the screen again)... if the enemy
is under the center of the wind marker, that's angle 75.

All button to half power mark = 80 - right click and drag your all/teamtalk
button under yourself or your enemy, whoever is further to the left. Let's say
it's you. If the target is over the half power (2nd bar) mark of your power bar,
that makes for a perfect angle 80 shot.

Width of your item meter = 82 - right click and drag the screen so that the item
meter is hovering over you and the opponent. If both of you barely 'fit' inside
the left and right edge of the item meter, that's a perfect angle 82 shot. Of
course you could just as easily use the angle 80 measurement above and then
eyeball it to determine how many degrees to raise.

With so many markers you should be able to calculate slight angle differences
easily, but just to help: 1 bar on your power meter is about 4 angles, maybe a
hair less. So let's say the enemy is 1 bar past the half screen marker. That
would be angle 75 - 4 degrees = angle 71.

It also is a good idea (if you don't consider it cheating) to make a piece of
paper as wide as your screen and mark the 85, 80, 75, 70, and 65 spots. Make
sure gunbound is actually running when you make this cheatsheet, and make the
paper exactly as wide as the edges of gunbound's screen... not necessarily the
glass part of your monitor or even the visible area you see on your desktop.

Fixed power shooting tips:

First, a link that helps explain visually what I'm talking about:
http://media.virtuafighter.com/media/gb/fixed.htm

And now the tips:

*Make the cheatsheet, it helps a lot and nobody has to know. If you don't make
the cheatsheet, memorize as many screen landmarks as you can. You might also
want to mark down turtle's high angle landing points on your sheet, just divide
it into 10 even parts with a different colored marker/pen.

*Spend time between turns calculating the angle by making liberal use of right
click to measure how far the enemy is from you in terms of screen distance. This
is easier when you're playing a 4vs4 game and have a lot of time to measure and
calculate wind adjustment. You should even go as far as to say "ok I will use
angle X if the wind is like this, and if the wind is 2 more or 2 less I will go
with angle Y"... it helps to mentally talk over what angle you need because that
angle will stick in your head if your position gets disturbed later.

*If your angle is ruined and you have to walk forward or back to regain the
correct angle, remember that in the process of walking you have changed the
angle you need to shoot at, and you should take a few seconds to re-measure.
Once you get good at using fixed power, you can judge how many angles to adjust
your shot just by eyeballing the distance you made turtle walk. Usually it's
only 1 or 2 angles difference. Remember also to recalculate if the enemy walks
or has his position changed by someone's shot.

*Remember that a height difference will alter the angle you need to shoot at. If
an enemy is below you, you need to shoot at a higher angle than your cheatsheet
would indicate. If the enemy is above you, you need to lower your angle. The
shot is following a 'rainbow' path, remember. Let's say you put yourself under
your all/teamtalk button and you see an enemy positioned above your half power
mark. From the section above, all-to-half-power is angle 80. However if the
enemy is quite a bit below you, the shot will only pass the half power mark when
it is perfectly even with your mobile's body. Then as it continues to travel,
it's moving forward as well as down, and it will pass the angle 79 mark, then
78, then 77... etc... until it finally hits ground. If the enemy was directly
below the half power mark, you'll notice your shot's forward momentum carries it
past them and you'll be off by 1 or 2 angles. The same principle applies to an
enemy above you. You must visualize a specific shot path and then try to imagine
whether or not the enemy is in the way of your shot as it travels to a
destination somewhere beyond their body. If you don't account for a height
difference and lower your angle, your shot will end up landing directly below
the enemy and not actually touch them.

*Fixed power is tricky in different winds, and when you mix in height
differences you might find yourself unable to decide which of 2 angles is
correct to hit the enemy. You might even find that the opponent is situated
almost directly between two different angles. In those situations, it's
acceptible to vary your power and try to cheat the system a little... for
example if you think angle 80 might fall a little short and you're scared angle
79 passes over the enemy's head, try angle 80 with 2.5 bars instead. If it turns
out angle 80 at 2.4 bars would be dead on, you still might get an acceptible hit
with 2.5 bars.

*Remember that when wind is down or against, your maximum range for 2.4 bar
shots is shorter than usual. You may only be able to hit enemies about half a
screen away. Also remember that because of the nature of turtle's shot 2, a shot
against the wind might hit the enemy but still not have enough time in the air
to merge into a tight stream. The same problem can happen when firing at an
opponent far above you... the aim is correct but the shots just don't have time
to come together before contact. In these situations you should still try shot
2, and if you can only get a half hit, move to shot 1 instead until conditions
change.

*You can shoot beyond 1 screen when the wind is helping your shot, and you don't
need to increase power... for example if angle 60 hits 1 screen away in 0 wind,
and you have 6 wind blowing towards the target, an angle 60 shot at 2.4 bars
will travel about 1.05 screens. You can use this to your advantage when an enemy
is more than 1 screen away and you don't want to hassle with high angle shots.

****Wind adjustment: (also copied and pasted from my armor guide, some of it
might not be perfectly accurate due to slight differences between armor and
turtle's shots)

From my experience, adjusting for wind with any bot at any fixed power is nearly
the same. Using the adjustments I'd use for high angling with cake has served me
well for using turtle/armor 2.4 bar method.
Wind adjustment works like this: figure out the angle you need in 0 wind.
If wind is up or towards the opponent or both, raise angle to compensate.

If wind is against you or down, lower the angle to compensate. Remeber that if
you are using a maximum power of 2.4 bars, you cannot reach certain distances
when wind is against you... for example if you try to hit someone at angle 70
with 20 wind against you, you will fall short always. So in moderate or strong
wind blowing against you, I recommend you abandon using the 2.4 bar formula.
It's still ok when wind is blowing towards the enemy.

For calculating wind adjustments, look at the wind power, round down to the
nearest even number (i.e. 25 wind is really 24 wind)... then divide wind power
by a certain number. The number you use is based on wind direction.
A note about turtle: I realized recently that 1 wind difference DOES matter to
turtle. I don't know if that's always been true for all bots, but high angle and
fixed power shots do land in slightly different places if there's a different
wind from the last shot. Before, I'd always treated 19 and 18 wind as the same
thing, or 4 and 5 wind as the same, etc.

Here's a wind adjustment chart, I hope you get it:
http://media.virtuafighter.com/media/gb/WindChart.jpg

Also remember that at very close ranges, wind adjustments become skewed and
you're better off not screwing around with formula shots.

AN ALTERNATE FIXED POWER SHOOTING METHOD:

It is possible to use a fixed 3 bar shooting method with turtle.  The actual
power you should use varies:
Inside half a screen (not recommended): 2.8 bars
1/2 to 1 full screen distance: 2.95 bars
past 1 screen (1.5 screen max): 3.05 bars

Using this system, you calculate the angle using some different landmarks from
the 2.4 method.  Using 3 bar system:
1/2 screen = angle 80
1 screen = angle 70
1.4 screens = angle 60

So half a screen is 10 angles, 1/4 of a screen is 5 angles.  The distance
between angles is larger using the 3 bar system than the distance between
angles using the 2.4 method.  That is only logical - the more power you use, the
further the shot will travel with a small angle change.  
A useful landmark (for me) if you already know the 2.4 bar system and want to
learn the 3 bar system is to treat 5 angles distance (using 3 bar) as about the
same as 7 angles distance at 2.4 bars of power.

Advantages of 3 bar:
*Can make calculated shots beyond 1 screen distance without resorting to
full power shots, which can be more difficult to estimate perfectly.
*Sometimes in downward wind, 2.4 bars of power won't keep shot 2 in the air
long enough to allow the 2 streams to merge together.  The result can be
a half hit if you try to fire with just 2.4 bars of power, even if you
choose the best possible angle to shoot with.
Turtle can switch to the 3.05 bar system to ensure there is enough airtime.
*In upward winds, 3 bars is near the minimum you need to make a good high
angle SS shot, one that opens at the very top of the shot's arc.  If you can
already estimate where shots will land under the 3 bar system, you will have
some idea of how to make a decent SS shot in the right wind conditions.
*If wind is against or down, you can't even reach 1 screen's distance using
2.4 bars, and it becomes necessary to use more power to hit an enemy about
1 screen away.  

Disadvantages of 3 bar:
*Inside of 1 screen, using 3 bar is usually unnecessary and makes the shot
harder to estimate.  
*The wind chart for 3 bar shots is a little bit different, and if you're already
used to 2.4, you might find yourself calculating wind incorrectly.
*The distance between 2 angles using this method is large... large enough for a
mobile to hide so that one angle might go to far, but the next higher angle
comes a bit short, and neither can successfully hit the target.  In such
situations it becomes necessary to find the correct angle and also adjust your
power a bit.

-----------
PART 2:
-----------

Using SS:

The SS must spend about 3 seconds in the air before it 'deploys' (opens). If you
play boomer or armor you're familiar with that idea. The catch with turtle is
that after the shot opens, it spreads out into a bunch of small balls and these
balls tend to fall in a flat spray that covers a lot of ground. Each ball only
does 100 damage or a bit less, so if most of what you shoot splatters on the
ground then you're looking at a really weak 100-200 damage SS unless you aim it
very very carefully.
It's not enough to keep turtle's SS in the air 3 seconds, you must also try not
to keep it in the air too long because the shot spreads out too much.

There are two ways to aim the SS to make a decent impact and hit with 5 or more
balls.  You may wish to check out my visual aids first then read the following
info on how to use the SS:

http://media.virtuafighter.com/media/gb/turtle_ss.htm

METHOD 1: TIMEBOMB METHOD

I love the 'timebomb' SS method. The idea is to fire your SS so that it
opens up a fraction of a second before hitting the enemy. If it deploys at
pointblank range, it doesn't matter much what direction the small waterblobs try
to move in, because they're going to smack the enemy's mobile before they have a
chance to spread out. If your SS opens too early, only 1 or 2 balls hit for
minimal damage. If it opens too late, you do the embarassing 'plop' shot and hit
the enemy before the blob opens. The result is about the same, a crappy bit of
200 damage and a huge waste of delay. So if turtle's SS opens in 3.0 seconds,
your goal is to find a shot that will stay in the air between 3.05 and 3.2
seconds. It sounds impossibly hard but it's not if you have a formula to start
out with.

The basic short range SS:

0 wind
Angle 75
1.9 bars power (about 49% of your full meter)
Distance = From your all button to the half power m

[creedo]

Updated:

*added 3 bar shooting formula.
*minor additions, corrections, and updates.

[creedo]

minor update: Added url to my turtle SS visual guide:

http://media.virtuafighter.com/media/gb/turtle_ss.htm

[creedo]

updated: correct 3 bar power levels.
Inside 1/2 screen: 2.8 bars
1/2 to 1 screen: 2.95 bars
1 to 1.5 screen: 3.05 bars

[creedo]

Updated with more accurate 1/2 screen and 1 screen SSes.

1/2: 67 1.95 bars
1.0: 49 2.35 bars

Today I got a 500 dmg 1 screen SS and forgot to cap, and it made me sad.

See? Sad ->  

[Auga]

tapping is stronger then shotgun, i did 800 in avatar off by tapping,  

[creedo]

you mean like suicide tapping when you're inside of them?

[zyad]

the suicide shot 2.  it does a ton of damage by tapping when you are right inside of them.  with thor it can do massive damage.

[masterofme]

Nice, what.. quintuple post? You should know better..

[Ramza]

I'd edit merge and delete some of the posts, but I can't seem to do that. :unsure:  

[creedo]

zzz masterofme, you're replying to the quintuple post over a month later, so I doubt it was really fucking with you a lot.  You might just now have read the all the replies, but they were spaced over 1 or 2 weeks, not spammed all at once.  Sometimes you have to look beyond the letter of the law to see the spirit of the law.... without the replies, how will I alert people to updates?  I can't expect them to check the topic every day.  

Ramza:  the need for a long thread will hopefully be eliminated if and when rizzano sets up a way I can edit my guides on the front page.
If you can delete topics, feel free to nuke the update posts.

[00Sniper]

without the replies, how will I alert people to updates?  I can't expect them to check the topic every day.

Thats a very good point... People will not be as prone to check on the guide unless they see that there is a new post in the guide thread.

[xG0LD3Nx]

It cant walk far enough so need to teleport and sg

[Ramza]

When using Turtle, you don't NEED to teleport and sg. Basically you only SG if you're a Turtle noob, and you are also a Turtle noob if you constantly need to move. You generally can stay in the same area and kick everyone's ass. The only time where a teleport is truly needed is if you're in a really deep hole or if you got trapped by Lightning or JD, and if you're good enough it doesn't happen to you often, thus eliminating use of the teleport in a majority of your games that you use Turtle.

[maggitx]

all i have to say was a excellent guide to using the turtle