dting is a true pro virtue

[limonchileman]

People who say "No dt" are annoying.

[creedo]

i have come to the crushing realization that i ALWAYS side with the minority of gunbound and always get hounded for it...

MARTYR.

play as cake because it is what's 'cool' - never did it

Who hounds you for not playing cake?  I've never heard of anyone giving people shit for NOT using as cake, particularly in avatar off.  I sometimes get some shit for choosing to use mr. die-in-two-duals-and-inflicts-shitty-damage.  People don't care as much as you think about who you pick.

buy a full clone suit - i'm a golden battle axe plus and haven't done it

zzz avatar off is enormously popular so of course nobody expects this of you.

teleports - never use them and am annoyed when others do

This isn't exactly siding with the hip, elite underground minority.  I think the majority of good players don't care to use them and don't mind if they're disabled.

heals - love them, and hate it when people ask me to turn them off in MY room

I gotta admit, you're right... people who enable heals always catch a ton of (completely needless) flak.  I wish people would wake up and realize heals are inferior to duals and don't unbalance the game in any way, at least not in avatar off.

double teaming - refuse to do it, even when 'necessary' to win

You're going to tell me in a score game, it's double death, it's 1-1, the next turn the enemy is guaranteed to win, you won't shoot a smoking enemy sitting right next to you because your teammate already has shot him?  There's only one word for someone who will intentionally allow the game to be lost just to satisfy some personal unwritten personal rule: ASSSSSSSS (I mean that in a nice way).

when people double team, they limit the amount of time that another person is playing. playing, for me, is directly related to fun. playing = fun. double teamed to the point that you don't get a turn = no fun.

Why are you worried about how much fun someone else is having?
Fuck their fun, worry about your own.  Whether you personally choose to double team an enemy or not does NOT CHANGE HOW MUCH FUN YOU'RE HAVING (except maybe to decrease it because you lose more often).  
I repeat: whether you double team or not doesn't alter how many turns you stay alive (actually that's not true, double teaming the enemy keeps you and your teammates alive LONGER).  The only other thing that determines how long you stay alive (and I guess how much fun you have) is whether the ENEMY double teams, and that is BEYOND YOUR CONTROL.
For fuck's sake, if you're going to say DTing is cheap because it's decreasing the enemy's fun by costing them turns... why don't you just use your absolute weakest weapon?  Why don't you aim to half hit or almost miss every shot?  In fact, fuck it, don't use any items, don't shoot when it's your turn, and don't respawn or drop slot items when you die.  It's so horribly unfair of you to try to kill the enemy and decrease their fun level.

i know there are plenty of people who don't play for fun and only play to win games and get a good rank. those are also the people who bot and hack and make the game unfun for others.

What a lame generalization.  Anyone who is competitive or can only have fun by playing seriously to win is automatically a botter and a jerk in your world.  Not all of us can be satisfied getting their ass kicked repeatedly.

As for making the game unfun for others - I am capable of having fun without expecting others to change their behavior.  I have had fun on gunbound from day one, double teaming and all, because the game is inherently fun.  I don't need to force certain behavior on your to MAKE it fun.  I think it sucks you can't have fun without making other people play by arbitrary 'house rules' you create.  

i don't see how double teaming is a 'pro' thing to do. my idea of pro is being able to kill someone all by myself, without help from others. my idea of n00b is needing all of your teammates to kill one person.

Reality check, pro is short for professional, someone who can play well.  Playing well = winning more than the other guys, not "having more fun than the other guy" or "giving the enemy as many turns as possible".  Not "letting my teammate eat a dual and die because I'm a wanker who refused to kill their nearly dead opponent".
PRO is being able to hit any enemy at any time, being a threat to every enemy on the map, not just the dink 1 inch away from you.  
You've got a funny definition of noob.  If my team can beat yours consistently 5-0 in a score game using double teaming (which is not at all unrealistic since we'll assume you all refuse to DT)... then we have a paradox:
A: My team is noob
B: Your team is so pro because you don't ever 'need' help.
C: Your team loses badly to my team.
D: Therefore your team is really somewhere far below what you call 'noob' level.

i guess someday i will just snap and start double teaming people and wear the same avatar as everyone else and only play as cake and become another mindless drone of gunbound...

You sound like one of those guys who complains about the horrors of capitalism while you're living on daddy's nickel, or who thinks having to take a test for a driver's license is nazi bullshit.

Bottom line:  You're a whiner man, sorry to break the news.  You have that martyr/whiner mindset.  You've complained about being persecuted for playing cake (doesn't happen), for not buying a full set (nobody cares), for not using teleports (wayyyyy off base)... I can't stand seeing this shit, it makes me want to go off.  People like you ruin games because you want everything spoonfed, watered down, nerfed, oversimplified.  You suck the fun out of what should be a competitive game.  You want MKIII instead of VF4, tetherball instead of volleyball, badminton instead of tennis.  If you can't tolerate playing with competitive people then you should stick to 1 player games, because multiplayer games will always have the element of team-a-can-utterly-crush-team-b.

[cr0nik]

i agree with you guys, creedo and mauvecow... i felt like busting out on them, too, but don't ya think u guys should be a bit gentler?

anyway, i don't understand why people feel so uppity about dt'ing.  it's like part of the game, yo?  you can't say, "oh it's what everyone does and it's wrong..." multiplayer mode is built on a team based framework.  4v4 doesn't mean more players for you to solo.  it means you working with your teammates.  if your teammate is about to die, you obviously go and save him.  if teaming up on an enemy gives your team the advantage, then you do so.  NOT doing so is being selfish and not playing as a team (go play 1v1's against some noob).

the solution to dt'ing?  triple teaming.

[Fankee]

mauvecow and creedo are just goddamn hilarious...

i don't see how double teaming is a 'pro' thing to do. my idea of pro is being able to kill someone all by myself, without help from others. my idea of n00b is needing all of your teammates to kill one person. but that is just my opinion.

to kill someone all by yourself isn't too hard, since many different bots have different advantage against other bots... say in a situation (this happened in one of my games), i'm boomer (as always) and i started next to sate... i do a backshot thru sunlight using dual+, dealing 500+ dmg... he does the same, no fancy shots, just tapping spacebar, dealing 500+ dmg and 60 less delay than me, although we took the same amount of time to shoot... next shot he duals on thor, and i die... he tapped the spacebar twice, does that mean he is very pro? wat is your defintion of pro? to be able to out-advantage other players with your bot? dude, quit the whining and learn to play the game... please... before u get any more insults thrown at your face...

[GoodLad]

I agree...if u wanna show how pro u are play 1v1 and kill some lad/lass all by yourself...  

[moptastic]

...i've been pwnd...

i realize some of my arguements were illogical so i'll just stop talking. i'm sorry everyone got their panties in a bunch over this one...

you guys play how you want to play, i'll play how i want to play, and lets hope we never meet up in non-1v1 game.

the end.

[shotgunkelly]

you guys play how you want to play, i'll play how i want to play, and lets hope we never meet up in non-1v1 game.

 At least YOU hope we never meet, because we'll DT your and your teammates' asses off to kingdom come.  LOL.    

[Miniglfr]

Hey, ummm...

I guess I'm one of Moptastic's 'teammates' but here's my opinion:

If I am playing not with friends to win, I have absolutely nothing against double teaming.  I wouldn't call it pro - it just seems natural to me.  However, Moptastic is the person of the highest skill (not 'pro'ness - just skill) that I play with on a very regular basis.  When we are playing a game, it's impossible to DT, because if I do (with Moptastic on my team), he immediately switches targets.

I don't complain.  We win more than our share without team-stacking, and though sometimes I am frustrated that Moptastic will refuse to kill someone, it doesn't come up too often.  The times when it IS frustrating are when:

A. The other team DT's one of us (quite often)
B. The other team gets dragon / knight (Duh)
C. I need help (I'll help him - I just get yelled at)
D. It's a game-winner / loser (very frustrating)

When I play with friends, I generally don't DT - this is where that fun = alive thing comes in.  But with strangers, ESPECIALLY with a game of all strangers, I am a DT-alohic.  It's just better (sorry to burst your bubble Moptastic, but I don't play by your rules when you aren't around).

Now, some of you will yell at me to get out of the routine of listening to Moptastic, but like I said - he's good at the game in general, so I don't mind in general.  

I guess what I'm saying is that Moptastic plays a different Gunbound then you guys do, and I have a foot in both.  Moptastic can't see your point of view because, even though he possesses (or is at least generally close) to have the skills to play at a close-ish level with 'pros', he can't because anyone who tries to win is kicked for being a n00b.  I must submit to these 'house rules' when I play with him, but when by myself I can see and appreciate Double Teaming.

In Conclusion...

Double Teaming in a game of all friends who are playing only semi-competetively is kinda lame.  Give your friends (especially those newer to gunbound) a chance.

Double Teaming in general is annoying as hell, but not because it is lame or wrong or noobish.  It's just annoying when two people are attacking you - duh.

In case you are wondering, as stated before Moptastic is a Gold Battle Axe Plus.  I am a Gold Battle Axe.  Not super-pro, but perhaps quasi-kinda-pro-ish.

So I'm done rambling now.  Flame me if you want, just give Moptastic a wee tad more respect, cause he deserves a LITTLE bit more than you are giving him.

[mauvecow]

For all I know mop could be the best player in the world, not missing a single shot throughout the entire game and having immense tactical skills. This does not change that his view is incorrect, stupid, and retarded in ways that have been covered about a hundred billion times throughout this entire (devolving) discussion and I will not reiterate them. Again. For him to come in this late with the same goddamned illogical retarded BS we've been hearing over and over, he's going to get the full brunt of the frustration anyone with a bit of sanity has.

I will agree that organized vs unorganized teams, in the triple-team-a-thon fashion, are pretty lame. This is one of those things where I have a serious axe to grind with some 'pro' solo metaminers.(When don't I?) Fortunately it doesn't come up all that often on maps that aren't pathetically easy to aim on, so.

Additionally, I don't normally play with/against randoms, so the whole argument just goes out the window. This, in effect, makes it worse for me: Ever be the first target of everyone, every single game? It can be exasperating. I'm pretty much a proponent of even teams (If I head into a room with friends and it's all wands on one side and not on the other, I am going to be one pissy cow), as well, so.

[eraddeus]

I will not reiterate them. Again.

I agree 100% with you mauve, but this quote makes me laugh a little. Iterate already means to say again - this is like, doubly redundant. :-P

[shotgunkelly]

I will not reiterate them. Again.

I agree 100% with you mauve, but this quote makes me laugh a little. Iterate already means to say again - this is like, doubly redundant. :-P

Well you are wrong friend.  "Reiterate" and "iterate" have the same meaning -- to do again or repeatedly.  They are interchangeable.  Just like "ravel" and "unravel", "respective" and "irrespective", "regardless" and "irregardless", etc.  And so class, this ends English 101 for today....  haha    

[Bravodor]

Dt is part of the game.
Anyone who doesnt when they should is just a weak player who lets the peer pressure from the other team affect their better judgment.